Generation Y and Zeds are vexing for the traditional  church.  Author of ‘Losing Our Religion’ Christel Manning argues that Millennial and Gen Zed Nones (those born in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s)

“hold a wide variety of worldviews, ranging from deeply religious to highly secular, and transmit them in diverse ways. What ties them all together is a commitment to spiritual choice—a belief in the moral equivalence of religions and secular worldviews and in the individual’s right to choose—and it is that choice they seek to pass on to their children.”

In sociological speak, instead of having their identities ascribed or handed down and inherited, Gen Y’s and Zeds value elective identities and that includes religious and spiritual identities.

Dutch religious studies teacher and theologian Frank Brouwer joins me to discuss this fascinating question of how the young in Western Europe are responding to the deeper questions of life, how they understand the church and how, most interestingly, they are building their own spiritual literacy, on their own terms.

On the 17^th December, the Washington Post published an article about a former employee of Ensign Peak Advisors, (a not for profit corporation constituted under the direction of of the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).  The article tells of the whistleblower's complaint to the IRS alleging that Ensign Peak has failed to meet its charitable giving obligations.  According to the complaint, not one charitable distribution from the $100billion dollars that purportedly sits with Ensign Peak has been made during its 22 years of operation, which it is obligated to do as a supporting organisation with tax-exempt status.

Professor Sam Brunson, a tax law specialist at Loyola University, joins me in order to make sense of what the complaint to the IRS is all about and if and how it might be resolved.

David’s book 'The Complete Heretic’s Guide to Western Religion:  The Mormons' is not your usual snipe at faith that Atheists can bore you with.   His history of the Mormons is straight-shooting without being unfeeling; it's efficient without cutting too many corners, and it leaves one feeling both impressed and rightly appalled at the faith that gave us the 'Family’s Can Be Together Forever' and a disciplinary culture that would make God blush.

David Fitzgerald and I are unlikely conversations partners; me a theologian and spiritual formation enthusiast and he an avowed atheist. But, it’s one that seems to work well because we both have an appreciation for the absurd.  And Mormonism is brimming with absurdities. 

Mormon history, as it turns out,  makes its people and its past seriously interesting.

Jana Johnson Spangler, a recent graduate from Richard Rohr's 'Living School',  joins me to discuss the spiritual formation and potential richness of the place between the sometimes intractable institution, and the soul's organic growth.

We address the questions:  How do we manage and trust our growth when there is little in the way of a  healthy institutional response to our spiritual change?  How can we find our own faithful path through our faith crisis?

Brigham Young's status in the early LDS Movement needs to be understood in order to tackle the hard question of what gave him the right to claim the presidency,  particularly in light of the fact that it is now well known that the transfiguration of Brigham was a myth.   

Joe Geisner joins me to discuss Brigham's 'right' to succeed Joseph?

Bringing a philosophical eye to Mormonism helped author Brittany Hartley to appreciate the beauty and potential of Mormon thought as she came into her own questions about her ongoing affiliation. 

Unfortunately, Mormon thought kept alive by generations of curious Mormon intellectuals, can’t quite compete with the heft of Mormon authoritarianism.   When push comes to shove, the church’s direction is often decided by edict rather than drawing on the traditions own philosophical and theological resources.

Where one stands in relation to this tension between the Big ‘C’ Church’s bent toward authoritarianism, and the small ‘c’ church’s concern for keeping the Mormon theological conversation expanding and emerging is where the heart of faith crisis lies.  

Brittney’s book ‘Mormon Philosophy Simplified’ is a philosophically accessible treatise that excavates the best of what Mormonism continues to offer while not being naive that most of it will ever make it to the pulpit or to the Ensign. 

Cristina Rosetti is a Roman Catholic woman and scholar who is interested in Mormon Fundamentalism.

She joins me to discuss her own religious and spiritual path.  Oddly her inquiry into Mormon Fundamentalism comes out of an interest in how certainty shapes and creates religious identities.   Her scholarship in Mormonism was initially a way of helping her understand the relationship between faith and doubt, certainty and uncertainty

But, her questions of faith drew her into the world Mormon Fundamentalism and the way in which Mormonism has unfolded as highly schismatic and overly concerned with truth claims and authority.

In order to really understand the LDS Church, one absolutely needs to understand Mormon history.  There are few periods in Mormon history that are darker and more defining than the Mormon Reformation. 

In order to really understand the LDS Church, one absolutely needs to understand Mormon history.  There are few periods in Mormon history that are darker and more defining than the Mormon Reformation. 

Lindsay Hansen Park characterizes this period of Mormon history as best understood by imagining what you’d get if you introduced the wild, wild West to an Old Testament God. She further argues that the LDS Church today continues to be shaped by the unresolved violence that took place during that murderous time.

Over the last couple of years, Michael Wright has discovered his spiritual self anew in the LDS Restoration tradition.  A descendant of Mormon pioneers he spent years trying to make himself straight in the LDS Church so he could be everything that was expected of him.   But, despite his efforts, nothing worked and his religious and spiritual life went on hold.

Then he discovered Community of Christ, (not an offshoot but a Restoration cousin of the Utah Mormons) a Christian church that offers full inclusion to LGBTQ people and women.

Now, the newly baptized Michael participates fully in the spiritual and missional life of Community of Christ from his home in Rome, Italy.   He has discovered, God and Jesus Christ and the Spiritual life as a gay man married to the love of his life, Antonio.

For most people, General Conference is a pleasant ritual.  

But General Conference over the years has become less straightforward, particularly for women. Sara Hughes-Zabawa a licensed mental health worker, and Carrie Salisbury, a board member and moderator at Exponent II share their reflections on the General Conference fall out.

What kind of claim does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have to the proposition that they are a faithful continuation of the church Joseph established?  What kind of character was Brigham Young anyway?  What did he really want with a church and a people?  

Dr David Mason is the author of Brigham Young: Sovereign in America and he joins me to discuss the man who made the Mormons.

The perennial question is where, how and what do we teach our children about sex and sexuality? What is appropriate, and what isn't? Additionally, those who have come from orthodox faith traditions are often on the back foot and at a loss as to how to re-think sex let alone teach their children about sex and sexuality.

Our Whole Lives (OWL) is life span sexuality programme that caught my attention after being mentioned in 'Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free' by Linda Kay Klein. The premise of OWL is that the more informed we are, the better positioned we are to make holistic, healthy decisions about our sexuality.

OWL is based on four key values: Self-worth (everyone has worth); Sexual Health; Responsibility; Justice and Inclusivity.

Dr Melanie Davis is the OWL Program Manager for the Unitarian Universalist Association and joins me to discuss OWL a lifespan sexuality program that takes nothing for granted.

Those who grew up in the Restoration tradition will be familiar with the songs of Zion;   That place where God and community meet. 

But, despite his original intentions Joseph Smith was corrupted by his 'Kingdom' ego.  Kirtland and Nauvoo failed as intentional communities, and Utah has not been faithful to the promise and hope of Zion either.

So, can Zion ever be realized?

Andrew Bolton, former apostle of Community of Christ certainly likes to think so.

Nick Literski discusses the many and varied ways that he has found a vibrant spiritual life after leaving active involvement as a family man in this LDS Church.   It has surprised and delighted him that having a deep and rewarding spirituality did not depend on him denying his sexuality.   

Nick and I talk early faith needs; fundamentalism; faith changes and renewal.

After Debra Brown Gordy discovered that her husband, a BYU Professor, was gay her world fell apart.   They tried to keep the marriage together but it wasn't to be.   

After the divorce, Debra went back to graduate school and conducted research about the experience of women in relationships with gay men. She joins me to discuss her personal experience being married to a gay man;  the results of her research and the reconstruction of the lives of women divorced from gay men.

How can our service to the dying be improved?  What pastoral practices are helpful in order to help our loved ones or those to whom we’ve been called to minister pass away in peace.

Sue Bergin, a hospice chaplain and spiritual carer, with more than 10 years of experience in Salt Lake City and Utah County, joins me to offer helpful suggestions for ministering to the dying.

Alexandre Christoyannopoulos is a Senior Lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Loughborough University.   He’s of French and Greek parentage and without a religious upbringing arrived out of curiosity at the door of Christian anarchism and ended up writing his PhD thesis on the topic.

Alex’s book, 'Christian anarchism: A Political Commentary on the Gospel' brings some of the most important thinkers together in one volume.  Alex's book highlights the underlying revolutionary intention of the gospels that gets so lost in the business, ideologies, and the financial exchanges of the church.  

Alex joins me to discuss the radical character of the Jesus Way that has shaped Christian Anarchist thinking

Dr Matt Frizzell (former Dean of the Graceland University Seminary) and I get deep and animated about theology.

Theological conversations by their very nature are porous, expansive and self-reflexive.   Theology is all about breathing in the mystery and letting the mystery discover the words that have always pulled at our souls.  Theology is profoundly intimate and deeply transformative, wonderfully elusive, and ever-changing.   

But, it's ideal to be trained in theology, as our robust discussion reveals!

Brenda Nicholson joins me to discuss the social life of women in the FLDS church where she grew up under Rulon and Warren Jeffs.   She’s since left the sect and fiercely argues that there is no way, that polygamy benefits anyone. 

Women, she argues are dehumanized in a system that was designed, as Section 132 intends, for the glory of men. More recently Brenda has made some interesting connections between Hulu’s Gilead in the Handmaids Tale and the social hierarchy in the FLDS community.

David Ostler is a former LDS Bishop, a Stake President and a Mission President.  David has been kept awake at night by questions of what good pastoral care or ministry to those who question and doubt might look like.

But, rather than guess (as is often the case), he went to both those in faith crisis and to those in leadership and he collected data.  From that data his book ‘Bridges; Ministering to those who Question’ emerged, and the results are fascinating.


This episode is co-hosted with Nathan McCluskey.

Gina Colvin, host of A Thoughtful Faith Podcast offers a reflection on her personal spiritual and religious journey and how a vibrant spiritual life is invariably filled with interesting twists and turns; some quite surprising! 

In this Reconstructing Death series, I talk with a range of LDS spiritual, palliative and health care professionals whose work is with those at the threshold of death.  Each of them explores their evolving understandings of dying and death as a result of both their professional work and their personal faith development.

Dr Kathleen Moncrieff:  Family and community physician:  Calgary

Dr Kathleen Moncrieff completed medical school, her family medicine residency, and her master’s degree in medical education at the University of Calgary and she currently works in community-based family medicine.  Kathleen talks about assisted dying in light of Canada’s new laws.  She discusses how religious and cultural pluralism has shaped her approach to the dying and their families.

In this Reconstructing Death series, I talk with a range of LDS spiritual, palliative and health care professionals whose work is with those at the threshold of death.  Each of them explores their evolving understandings of dying and death as a result of both their professional work and their personal faith development.

Dr Julia Durrant:  Neurocritical care attending physician:  Oregon

Dr Julia Durrant is an attending physician in neurocritical care at a university hospital in Oregon.  Julia has attended hundreds of deaths and she talks wisely about the point at which religion, faith and science intersect which has caused her to strongly believe that God is not orchestrating anyone’s death. 

In this Reconstructing Death series, I talk with a range of LDS spiritual, palliative and health care professionals whose work is with those at the threshold of death.  Each of them explores their evolving understandings of dying and death as a result of both their professional work and their personal faith development.

Anni Lehti-Nieminen:  Oncology Nurse:  Finland

Anni Lehti-Nieminen is a registered nurse who works in outpatient palliative care at a university hospital in Tampere in Finland.   Anni talks about dying, death and grief in Finland including how LDS funerals can sometimes be in competition with Finnish customs and needs.

In this Reconstructing Death series, I talk with a range of LDS spiritual, palliative and health care professionals whose work is with those at the threshold of death.  Each of them explores their evolving understandings of dying and death as a result of both their professional work and their personal faith development.

Dr Ryan Williams:  Internal Medicine Physician: Idaho

Dr Ryan Williams is a  Board Certified Internal Medicine Physician.  He served for 4 years in the US Air Force and he went on to specialize in Hospital, Skilled Nursing and Hospice Care. He has been practicing in the Boise Idaho area for 10 years.  Ryan discusses how his maturing faith has gifted him with more uncertain views of death and dying but have improved his capacity to respond to his patients with more openness.

In this Reconstructing Death series, I talk with a range of LDS spiritual, palliative and health care professionals whose work is with those at the threshold of death.  Each of them explores their evolving understandings of dying and death as a result of both their professional work and their personal faith development.

Ana Nelson Shaw: Spiritual Care Co-ordinator

Ana Nelson Shaw lives in Butte Montana where she works coordinating spiritual care and volunteer services for hospice patients including making spiritual care visits.  Ana talks about creating environments of kindness and compassion for those at nearing death.

Dr Taylor Petrey and I talk about the Bible, its wonders, its frustrations and its possibilities.  And we discuss openly and honestly the widely felt frustration that Sunday School classes are not always welcoming of the skills of Biblical interpretation. While the curriculum is not always sound as it could be.

Lesley Butterfield is a registered nurse and survivor advocate who works with victims of abuse. 

She’s passionate about increasing literacy about abuse and trauma in particular for women survivors of spiritual and ecclesiastical abuse in the Church. 

Lesley has certifications and training in Trauma-Informed Care, Community Advocacy, Faith and Spiritual Development, Familial Mental Health, Domestic Abuse, and Resiliency.

We discuss the role that women play in the revictimization of female trauma victims in the Church and the lack of protection and safety for women who find themselves in abusive situations.

Community of Christ is a worldwide church, and though small in numbers maintain a consistent effort to  “proclaim Jesus Christ and promote communities of joy, hope, love, and peace.”  Their vision is a ‘table’ with everyone invited and participating and belonging regardless of gender, race, or sexuality.

One of their first progressive actions was to ordain women which they did so in 1984.  Today five of the council of twelve positions in Community of Christ are held by women.   At the 2019 world conference, Catherine Mambwe from Zambia was the first African woman to be ordained an apostle.

So, what does spiritual formation look like for a woman in Community of Christ?

Janné Grover is a member of the Council of Twelve Apostles, the lead missionary quorum of Community of Christ. She is assigned to the Central USA Mission Field. She is also director of Formation Ministries.

Her previous employment includes disciple formation ministries specialist for Community of Christ and is a musician by training and vocation.

Apostle, Janne joins me to discuss spiritual formation and what it means for a woman to be in senior ecclesiastical leadership in a progressive worldwide church.  

Church College of New Zealand, which was opened in 1958, had a short life by education standards.  For 52 years it served the mostly Māori Mormon LDS community.  But, in a swirl of confusion, it was finally closed in 2009 and demolished.

The school's motto was 'Build Now For Eternity' which motivated many Māori Mormons to contribute money, material resources and years of labour for the building of the school.  Today, despite promises to develop the land and reinvigorate the community of Temple View, few of the promised improvements which were offered to replace a much-beloved school have been realised.

Peter Witehira,  former Chair of the Temple View Heritage Committee, and Rā Puriri join me to discuss the beginning and end of Church College of New Zealand.

(Music by St Joseph's Maori Girls' College)

In 2019 Professor Peter Lineham was made a Member of the New Zealand Order of Merit for services to religious history and the community.  And that honour is well deserved. 

Few, if any scholars in the field of religious history in New Zealand have the sweeping knowledge and intimate understanding of religion in Aotearoa. He’s written about Māori prophets to Catholic missionaries to LDS History over the period of his distinguished career. 

Peter's fluency and his impressive breadth of understanding of Mormon history highlight the issues arising out of an American church who are in a complex relationship with New Zealand Māori.

In this episode, we look at child abuse from the perspective of prevention.  My guest is Gwen Knight, the executive director of Prevent Child Abuse Utah.

According to Prevent Child abuse Utah, its mission is to forge and guide a community commitment to prevent child abuse in all of its forms.

In Utah one in five children will be sexually abused before the age of 18, suggesting the issue of child abuse in the Beehive state is epidemic.

Gwen joins me for a very pragmatic discussion about what child abuse is in all of its forms and varieties,  what to notice, and how to respond when you suspect it.

Anthony Miller lives in Billings Montana.  He grew up Mormon  He did all the things required of good Mormon boys and he thought he knew where his life was heading.  But a dramatic and sudden period of faith deconstruction had him reconsidering everything about his religious life.

Mormon leave-takers don’t usually manage the God and church conversation without some nervousness but Anthony wanted to understand his inner journey well and despite his resignation, he has remained open and curious about spirituality and spiritual formation inside and outside of the LDS Church.   And, Anthony has found gracious and wise ways of accommodating his still adherent wife’s journey in the LDS faith.

Anthony joins me to talk about gracious LDS leave-taking, deconstruction and spiritual reconstruction.

At the beginning of May 2019 two mothers of children who were sexually abused by convicted pedophile, Michael Jensen, appeared back in their former ward in Martinsburg, West Virginia to warn the congregation that the children there are not safe.

This is a community, they argued, that circled their wagons around the perpetrator and their leaders.  This is a community that made sinners out of those who pointed out the sin.  This is a community that never apologized for their role in creating a climate that turned a church against the victims and their families.

Alice Koivu and Kelly Plante join me to talk about their journey back (as uninvited guests with a message) to the LDS Church pulpit.

Lucy Cammock talks passionately and with clarity about the subtle side of sexual abuse trauma that trailed her (a sexual abuse survivor) through her life.  

"I'm never done with the trauma", she argues. 

And while that may sound hopeless to some, for Lucy, what was more harmful was any idea that at some predetermined stage it will all be over. 

Lucy discusses the ideas that she has worked through as a woman and a mother as she works to get into a healthy relationship with her childhood sexual abuse.

Section 132 was Joseph Smith's revelation that provided the theological justification that allowed select men of the early LDS restoration to have sex with more than one authorized partner.

For The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, section 132 and the doctrines that have emerged from it inform gender inequality, the continued practice of post-mortem polygyny, male priesthood and more importantly it lays out the doctrine of the New and Everlasting Covenant which is central to the ordinances of the LDS temple.

It's absolutely essential that those of us in the LDS restoration movement understand Section 132 in order to make sense of Mormon History and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint's contemporary theological challenges.

In that spirit I read Section 132 in plain English.

Tim Kosnoff, victims' advocate and attorney, returns to the podcast to discuss the growing wave of sexual abuse allegations being made against the Boys Scouts and the long-standing relationship between the BSA and the LDS Church.

The Rev. Rob McKay began his religious formation in the LDS Church.  When he returned home from his mission he affiliated with a Pentecostal church in Auckland, New Zealand.  He then became Anglican and was ordained a priest in Tikanga Māori.  Recently he converted to Islam.

Despite these movements, he honours each tradition for what they offered him in his spiritual formation.  Though his journey hasn't been straightforward he is without regret.

In light of the mosque shootings in Christchurch, Rob's ability to deeply appreciate and understand these sometimes adversarial traditions might just be what our New Zealand religious community needs.

Rob McKay and I have a delightful conversation about the many unexpected places to which God calls us home.  

When the crime documentary 'Abducted in Plain Sight' was released on Netflix, Jan Broberg (the woman at the centre of this seemingly bizarre story of multiple kidnappings, an alien mission and sexual assault while a child) was full of regret and worry.   Her parents, Maryann and Bob Broberg, were publicly mocked and vilified for what seemed to be their complicity with the abuser Robert Berchtold.

But a 90-minute crime documentary cannot hope to capture the complexity and nuance of a story that has spanned several decades.  This was a story, not just about the violation of a child, but about the manipulation and grooming of a whole family.

The Broberg women sit down with me in order to set the record straight about their beloved parents.  Their only motivation in telling this sometimes excruciating story is to have families, churches and communities speak up courageously about the banality of grooming and sexual abuse among our own.

Sara Hughes-Zabawa joins me for the final episode of the Fowler's Stages of Faith series.   

In this episode we discuss the failings of Fowler's stages. We also talk about how we can notice or engage  stage 6 without falling into the trap of imagining that a universalizing faith is the terrain of the political and religious luminaries alone..

Jana Riess discusses her study 'The Next Mormons' and how the changing worldviews of Millennials will impact the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints.

From 'The Next Mormons':

"American Millennials--the generation born in the 1980s and 1990s--have been leaving organized religion in unprecedented numbers. For a long time, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was an exception: nearly three-quarters of people who grew up Mormon stayed that way into adulthood. In The Next Mormons, Jana Riess demonstrates that things are starting to change."

Joanna Brooks and Kalani Tonga join me to discuss their book of women's blessings and poetry, 'We Hold Your Name' (2019)

From the jacket:

"A collection of blessings and poetry written by Mormon women responding to the announcement of Gina Colvin's disciplinary council. This work of love features the voices of established authors like Carol Lynn Pearson and Joanna Brooks, as well as first time poets, and renowned visual artists. It is designed to lend comfort and courage to those who feel unwanted by their religious community, and was written specifically for those facing excommunication from the Mormon Church."

Richard James is a member of the Council of Twelve Apostles, the lead missionary quorum of Community of Christ. He is assigned to the Eurasia Mission Field.

Richard was born in Swansea, South Wales.

In the spirit of LDS Restoration ecumenism Richard joins me to discuss how Community of Christ has developed as a vital expression of the Restoration.

The Psalms are unique in scripture.  The Psalms strip away all decorum and show the fragility and wildness of the human condition.   The Psalms tell us that God invites our disappointment, our anger and our confusion.  The Psalms tell us that sometimes, there's no polite way of talking to God and that God is fine with that!

Katie Langston, LDS Church returned missionary and now a Lutheran seminarian joins me to discuss her spiritual journeying and her developing prayer practice through the Psalms.

The Rev. Tyler Doherty, Priest in charge at St. Marks Cathedral Church in downtown Salt Lake City and parishioner Cody Hatch.

Tyler and Cody join me in this ecumenical/interfaith conversation to talk about what the Episcopal Church has to offer a community that is home to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

John Hamer comes from a family who has long been a part of the Latter-day Saint movement.  Once a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, today, John pastors a bustling downtown Toronto Community of Christ congregation. 

We explore John's personal journey of how he reconstructed his faith, found community and rediscovered the Divine.

Craig Vernon has represented clients in several high profile church and clergy perpetrated sexual abuse cases including cases involving the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Litigating cases against the LDS Church shows them to be formidable adversaries who are motivated to win at all costs - after all - they are defending the Kingdom of God.

But, what puzzles Craig, like so many other others, is where is the pastoral care for the victims of LDS church and clergy related sexual abuse?  

Why is the defence of the institution more important that care of the abused?

And, why do the LDS Church's public statements about their zero-tolerance for sexual abuse not square with how they handle sexual abuse cases involving their own members?

We shouldn't be more worried about Faith Crisis than we are about our response to it.  A poor response to faith crisis can cause spiritual havoc and immense emotional damage.

From our LDS cousins (who have had their own institutional journey of deconstruction and reconstruction in the LDS Restoration movement) Community of Christ Spiritual Formation specialist Katie Harmon-McClaughlin discusses the important work of reconstruction and spiritual formation after a faith and belief deconstruction.

Katie discusses  Community of Christ's pastoral approach that supports the process of questioning rather than makes a sin of doubt.  This is essential listening particularly for those in the LDS Tradition who are looking for a pastoral response that doesn't make doubt a reason for exclusion or an issue of worthiness.

David Hayward is popularly known by his cartoons, his blog, and his books as The NakedPastor.

He started his ministry as a seminarian, an ordained minister and a pastor. But when David began to experience his own faith changes, complicating his relationship with the church, he walked away from full-time ministry and began his work as a 'graffiti artist on the walls of religion.'  

And for many years he his drawn his way through his own difficult relationship with the church that he both loves and laments.

When Maxine Hanks returned to the LDS Church after being excommunicated with the September 6 in 1993, she returned to the LDS Church having taken a spiritual formation pathway in the Gnostic tradition.  One of her great passions upon her return to Mormonism has been to surface the LDS Church's own spiritual formation pathway.

In this discussion, we consider the Liturgical Calendar, so important to the sacramental traditions.  We consider what the 'church year' from Advent to Pentecost, can offer us in helping us live more intuitively into the story of Jesus Christ and thus more kindly attend to our personal spiritual journeys.